033 How to Finance Rental Properties and Flips With Mark Filler CEO of Jordan Capital Finance

Update: Jordan Capital can no longer do 30 year fixed rate loans. I tried to refinance with them and after paying for appraisals, I was told the company that offered the 30 year fixed loans was no longer lending. I was not told that Jordan Capital was using another lender and I would not recommend them.

On this episode of the InvestFourMore podcast I interview an awesome guest! Mark Filler is the CEO of Jordan Capital Finance and he was the founder of Prospect Mortgage, which is one of the five largest mortgage lenders in the nation. Mark started Hilco Real Estate Finance, which later became Jordan Capital Finance, because he saw a huge opportunity for lending to real estate investors. As many of you know, it is tough for investors to get loans on many rental properties and hard money loans can have outrageous rates. Mark created a company to allow rental property owners to finance many properties, not just four or ten. He also created a company that would give consistent short-term loans to investors at reasonable rates.

How did Mark Filler get started in the finance world?

Mark graduated from Harvard law school and became an attorney after school. However, he had an opportunity to get into the mortgage banking business and although he no experience with banking he jumped in. He helped found Prism Financial, which grew from $1 million in revenues to over $275 million in revenues (15 billion in annual mortgage volume). He helped the company complete an IPO and was president when the bank was sold to Royal Bank of Canada.

Mark joined American Home Mortgage and then created Prospect Mortgage. Prospect now has a servicing portfolio over 15 billion. Mark started Prospect to focus on renovation loans and even though he created the company in the midst of a housing and lending crisis it was a huge success. Prospect was the number two bank in the country for renovation loans, but most of those loans were for owner occupied buyers. Mark started Hilco in order to provide renovation loans to investors in 2012. In 2014 the company was bought by the Garrison Investment Group, which is now a five billion dollar hedge fund. Hilco was turned into Jordan Capital Finance and that is where we find Mark today.

Why did Mark want to focus on lending to real estate investors?

Mark saw a huge gap in lending a few years ago. Most loans were marketed to owner occupants and real estate investors had very little options except for small local lenders. He knew there were many real estate investors who had solid financials, good business plans, but could not get loans because they owned too many properties or lenders did not like to offer short-term loans.

What kind of real estate investor loans does Jordan Capital Finance offer?

I have used a local portfolio lender for many of my loans on flips and rentals. However, my lender has some limitations as far as type loans and how much they will lend me. Jordan Capital’s philosophy was to offer real estate investors great short and long-term financing and even the option to use the two together.

  • Rental property loans: Jordan offers 30 year fixed rate loans to investors. They offer single property loans or bulk loans and rates that can be under 7 percent. Jordan will offer a cash out refinance and up to 75 percent of the value of the property. Jordan looks at the property when giving loans, not just the investor so debt to income ratios are not the main consideration like they are with many banks.
  • Fix and flip loans: Jordan offers short-term hard money loans on flips and can finance the repairs in the some cases as well. Jordan offers very competitive rates and once you get approved with them, can close very fast.
  • Combo loans: Jordan also offers a very interesting combo loan for rentals. You can use a short-term hard money loan to buy a house and fix it up and then switch into a long-term fixed rate loan that could cover most of the repair costs. This allows the investor to buy rental properties that need work, without having to pay for all the work out-of-pocket.

Why would an investor use Jordan Capital to finance their properties?

I am in the process of refinancing some of my rentals with Jordan Financial right now. I have 16 rentals and 14 mortgages, which are all ARMs. My portfolio lender has become a little tougher to work with since I hit 2.5 million dollars in loan with them (that includes fix and flip loans). Since it is tougher for me to get loans on new rentals, I am considering refinancing 8 of my rentals into 30 year fixed rate mortgages. My rates would be higher, but I would also be able to cash out about $300,000. I could then get more loans on new properties with my portfolio lender and have more cash to buy more properties. I would still cash flow on those 8 properties after refinancing them, but obviously not as much as I do now.

Even though the rates on a 30 year fixed loan may be higher than a conventional loan. Most investors have a hard time getting loans on more than four properties and an even harder time getting loans on more than ten properties. Hard money loans are not always easy to get either and many lenders charge more than 12 percent interest rates on them. Jordan has no limitations on the number of loans investors can have and they have plenty of money to loan.

[0:00”58] MF1: Hey everyone, Mark Ferguson with InvestFourMore and welcome to another episode of the InvestFourMore Real Estate Podcast. I’m really excited today, I know I say that a lot but today is special. I have an awesome guest on, Mark Filler, who is the CEO of Jordan Capital Finance. He’s on the show and that is an incredible company for real estate investors and we’ll get into that later. But Mark, thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the podcast.


[0:01:29] MF2: Thank you. Thanks for having me.


[0:01:31] MF1: Great, well I’ll give a little bit of background on where you come from. Like I said, you’re the current CEO of Jordan Capital Finance., you started out in the baking industry in 1994 as the co-founder of Prism Financial, which grew tremendously to a $275 million company. Then you ended up joining The Home Mortgage Corporation which is another giant company.


Then you started Prospect Mortgage, which was an even bigger company and was one of the top five biggest mortgage companies in the country. I know Prospect very well as an REO agent because Fannie Mae would use me as their rehab products, their home past loans once your prospect too many times so you started that and then you moved on to start Hilco Real Estate Finance which was then acquired by the Garrison Group and changed to Jordan Capital Finance which specializes in real estate investor loans. So you’ve been very busy in your career to say the least?


[0:02:38] MF2: Thank you, yeah. Yeah, it’s been a lot of hard work.


[0:02:41] MF1: Oh, I’m sure and then before that, you graduated from Harvard Law School and worked with a national law firm as well. So you’ve been very busy. Very cool, so my first question, you started out graduated from Harvard Law School, working with a law firm, what made you want to switch from that to get into the banking industry?


[0:03:03] MF2: Well really just, I was looking to do something more entrepreneurial and a friend of mine somehow convinced me to start a mortgage company and I didn’t know anything about it. I didn’t know anything about real estate or mortgages but we decided to give it a try and we got lucky and it went super, super well. We grew the business really fast, really big. We took it public, we sold it to Royal Bank of Canada and then I was hooked.


[0:03:31] MF1: Yes, I would say that that would hook somebody and then obviously you liked it because you kept starting or stayed in the mortgage industry. What do you think drew you into the banking industry and kept you growing that business?


[0:03:46] MF2: I think originally, it was literary just because a friend convinced me it was a good thing to try but once I was into it, I kept thinking about, “Well, you know, should I do this for the rest of my career?” Because my background was really completely different than real estate mortgages so there was other things I could do but I guess, I really liked it and it’s where I knew the most about that compared to any other industry.


And I had the most connections and importantly for one of the things that I do when I start business is you’ve got to be successful at raising money and the way I do things, I don’t like to start slow. I like to start and grow big really fast and that means you’ve got to be able to raise a lot of money. For me, the way I was going to be most successful at raising money is to stay in an industry that I already had a track record and expertise.


[0:04:46] MF1: That makes sense and for real estate investors, growing money or attracting money, getting investment money is obviously a huge aspect of growing real estate businesses as well. So I’m sure many people understand that. Would you compare getting money for the banking industry and starting a company like that to say real estate investors who are trying to get private money for flipping or rental properties? I’m sure, it’s obviously a much different scale you’re dealing on but is it all about relationships? What is it that really get you in the door when trying to buy something?


[0:05:19] MF2: You know, it’s funny. I wouldn’t have really thought of that comparison but it is. It gets up the courts about relationships. I raise money from people that I develop close partnership relationships with. It’s about having a track record and expertise. I’m not saying all of our borrowers but the vast majority of borrowers have a track record in real estate investing and so they have a lot of expertise.


Obviously, we’re able to provide a lot more money to people based, that have a good strong track record who have been successful at what they’re doing. Obviously, if you’re a brand new real estate investor and you’ve never done it before, it would be like me going out and trying to raise money for an Internet company and probably no one will give me money.


If I did, it wouldn’t be not very much money and the terms wouldn’t be as advantageous. So we do lend money to people that have no experience but we’re very thoughtful and careful about when we do that compared to somebody who has a good amount of experience.


[0:06:28] MF1: Yeah, that makes perfect sense and I’ve seen it all throughout my career and dealing with people. If you don’t have experience, don’t have a track record, you better have a pretty good proposal and you know the business very well and show that to a lender if you want to get any financing.


[0:06:45] MF2: Yeah, some combination of that and having a relatively strong net worth and liquidity position.


[0:06:52] MF1: Right, that makes perfect sense. And so, you started the banking company, went onto another company and you started Prospect Mortgage which became one of the biggest mortgage companies in the country. What was that like starting such a massive company and seeing it grow so fast? That must have been a whirlwind.


[0:07:12] MF2: It was actually, to tell you the truth, it was very similar to when I started Prism Mortgage and actually Prism Mortgage ended up being a little bigger than Prospect Mortgage. So I had already done it before, so I was essentially five years of additional experience so hopefully you make a few less mistakes than you made the first time around and that was the good news.


The bad news is that I started Prospect Mortgage at the very, very beginning of ’07 knowing that there was going to be some down turn in the market, which is one the thesis’s behind it that we’d be able to buy mortgage companies at a discount. But I thought that there was going to be a really small correction, nothing like the correction that we ended, the disaster that we ended up having.


So for the first couple of years, it was brutal operating in the mortgage business and it was literally, you’re just doing everything you can to survive. You’re barely able to — it’s difficult in that environment to really execute your strategy and so it was much more survival than it was really a growth strategy mode. And then really at maybe late in ’09 is when we were able to stabilize the business and then start coming barking on the strategy that we originally planned and started to think about growth instead of just thinking about survival.


[0:08:43] MF1: Oh wow, that makes sense. That is obviously a tough time to be in a mortgage industry with all the guidelines changing, having the industry crashing but it you said something that you survived and then became such a huge company. I know Prospect did a lot of specialization and renovation loans.


[0:09:00] MF2: That was one of our — the key, one of our main strategies was REO and renovation financing and part of that is because we were based in Southern California and obviously there was a lot of distressed scenario and part of it was also based on the fact that when IndyMac Bank went out of business, was thrown out of business by the FDAC, we took over their mortgage apparition.


So we had all these IndyMac REO properties and bad loans that we actually had to try to help finance. So one of the things that we recognized early on was that this was going to be quite a huge market, a huge opportunity, a huge need in the market for REO and renovation financing. So we became and actually, still to this day, Prospect is the number two renovation lender in the country after Wells Fargo.


In terms of the primary product is the FHA 203(k) product and then we were a world leader in the, as you mentioned, the Fannie Mae HomePath and the Fannie Mae HomePath renovation. So what happened was, we gained tremendous expertise in a nationwide basis in REO and renovation financing and that’s really how I had the idea for this new mortgage company, what was Hilco now Jordan.


Because we kept getting requests to do this renovation and REO financing for investors and as you know, the FHA 203(k) program, it’s illegal for an investor to use that program it’s only for home owners and Fannie Mae had a very limited rehabilitation product for investors. So there was this huge need up there. Our real estate agents would constantly ask us to help finance investors. Our loan officers were constantly help us finance investors and we just didn’t have the product.


So I saw this need and I already had the expertise on the renovation side. So I said, “Well, here’s another opportunity to go out and start a new company based on the knowledge and expertise that we already had.” So I was essentially able, we didn’t have to recreate the wheel. We just essentially did the same thing but we did it for investors instead of consumers.


[0:11:19] MF1: Yeah, that makes perfect sense and I know from being in the industry, there’s very little options out there for investors especially the rehab area. Things have gotten different over the last few years but a few years ago, there’s almost no options for investors looking to put 20% down at a minimum and then you get to pay for all the repairs yourself. So it is definitely a changing industry as far as that goes.


[0:11:43] MF2: Yeah, the industry has changed a lot in the last 18 months or so. It’s gotten a lot more competitive. It’s gotten better for the investor borrower. They can find options with slightly lower down payments, slightly higher LTV’s, slightly lower pricing, slightly more flexible terms, there’s just because of competition and a lot of money out there, investors are in the driver’s seat a whole lot more than it were two years ago.


[0:12:14] MF1: Right, for sure, I’ve seen that myself and yes, I am personally looking at refinancing some of my rental properties with Jordan Capital Finance so I have a personal business as well and yeah, those options weren’t available a couple of years ago. It was maybe a local lender could help you out. Once you got to a certain amount of mortgages, once you have 10 mortgages in your name, basically a conventional loan lending is completely out the door. So it made it tough for investors to really increase their portfolio in the previous lending market.


[0:12:45] MF2: You’re completely right. That whole market now of these longer term portfolio rental loans, it’s a brand new market, it’s a brand new asset class that barely existed two years ago.


[0:13:00] MF1: Right, yep. It’s funny before I started my blog, I started my site in March of 2013 and I was kind of researching before I did that new business ventures I could do, what I was good at and my first thought that popped into my head was, “I’ll just start a bank that lends to investors.” So obviously I had no experience and no idea of what I was doing but that fishtailed into the blog and talking about different options instead of starting it myself.


[0:13:25] MF2: Yeah and I agree.


[0:13:26] MF1: But you actually did it.


[0:13:28] MF2: Yeah because really in our industry even though it’s become a lot more competitive and there are a lot of competitors out there, there is only about a handful of competitors out there like us that are really, really well capitalized and can lend a lot of money on a reliable consistent basis and do it in many states. There’s tons of small local competitors but a lot of times, they run out of money or they can only do certain loan types or they can only do smaller loans.


Because in our industry, it’s really no different than any industry, there’s not a lot of companies out there, not a lot of people out there that are able to really raise a lot of money and that’s one of the things that we’ve been lucky. We have raised a ton of money and we have essentially unlimited lending capabilities between our equity investor and we have several lines of credit from banks like Wells Fargo and hedge funds and things like that.


So at the very end of 2014, we sold our business from Hilco to Garrison Partners and we did that primarily because we wanted a lot more money to grow bigger and faster and so really in 2015, our number one priority was to become a one stop shop for a residential real estate investor. I wanted to be able to have every product possible.


Short term, long term, big, small, single family, multi family, new construction, experienced borrowers, less experienced borrowers, full documentation programs, lower documentation programs, high LTV, low LTV, we really wanted to be a one stop shop that we could say that if there’s any residential real estate investor and the deal makes sense, we’ll be able to finance it. That hugely sets us apart from 99% of our competition because other firms have more limited product ranges.


[0:15:43] MF1: That makes sense. I want to talk about a lot of that later on, I have one particular program you guys have that’s very interesting to me. But you said something really interesting about the local hard money type lender, the ones who are state specific and I have a great story showing how limited some of those are. You know I am an REO agent and REO real estate agent.


So I work with HUD some other companies and as an agent, I see all kind of interesting things come up. We have one house under contract and the listing agent, the buyer was using a hard money lender and HUD, they want to see a proof of funds letter that shows you have the money in the bank to buy this house. And they provided the letter from the hard money lender that showed, “We’re a hard money lender, we’re providing the money to the buyers” and all this.


And they said, “No, we have to see, you’re not an accredited lender mortgage company. We need to see the money in your account.” Well that hard money lender did not have the money in their account. They went to another hard money lender and had them show money in their account in a letter saying, “This hard money lender was lended to this hard money lender.” It was just a crazy situation and shows those companies aren’t as stable as they may appear to be.


[0:16:53] MF2: Yeah, that’s definitely right. So our primary core product is we offer lines of credit to investors. So what we’ll do is we’ll go through a borrower approval before they even have a property or when they have their first property and based on their track record, their liquidity, their credit and some other things, we’ll say, “Okay, well we can lend you borrower up to X amount of dollars.”


A very common amount would be a $1 million. We have lines of credit anywhere from $200,000 to $7.5 million. If you think about it, almost none of our competitors can do what I’m talking about because of the example that you just gave. No one has — there is only a handful of people in the country who have enough money to tell hundreds of borrowers out there that, “Whenever you need money, we’ll be here because we have enough money. We don’t have to go out and raise it.”


And that way, we give a letter to our borrower that says, “You’ve been approved for a million or two million or $500,000 or five million, whatever the number is,” and that’s a letter that they can show the Hud or Fannie.


[0:18:08] MF1: Right that makes a big difference between the local hard money lenders and a national company that’s backed by a $4 billion fund.


[0:18:18] MF2: Yeah, $5 billion. It grew.


[0:18:20] MF1: $5 billion now, okay. Yeah, quite a bit of money backing.


[0:18:25] MF2: Yeah.


[0:18:26] MF1: All right, very cool. So now, you mentioned you have multiple different programs for different investors, can you tell us more about you have the short term financing, you have long term financing, what different programs do you offer investors?


[0:18:40] MF2: So our primary product is a nine to 12 month loan and it involved acquisition and renovation. We — about two thirds of our borrowers actually borrow rehab funds from us and I would say that that is a core competency of ours and something that we’re really, really good at is doing construction draws and doing them fast. So that when people want their rehab money, we can lend against that very easily.


And then about two out of three of our borrowers flip the property and about one out of three hold them for rental and in those cases, we also do the long term rental loans. We have five, 10 and 30 year rental loans. We have single property and multi property rental loans. And we do, in terms of the lending again, one of the four property unit buildings is definitely out core but we do a lot between five and 30 units as well.


Just in the last six months, we have done a lot of new ground up, new construction. So we do not finance land development but we will finance as soon as they’re ready to build, we’ll cash out some of the land value and also do the construction financing on new construction. And I know that’s something that most of our competitors are not set up to do new construction.


And most of our borrowers want to go for a full under right, get a line of credit and that way because they have been already approved as a borrower, we can close on their deals in a week because all we have to do then is get an appraisal and an inspection. Some of our borrowers don’t want to go through as strenuous or full a documentation review. And so in those cases, we can do a lower touch, a less detailed underwrite of the borrower.


And then in return for that, we can’t offer the long term line of credit because we don’t know enough about the borrower to be able to do it and have a long term partnership like that where we can already tell them upfront how much money we’ll give them. But some of the people say, “Hey, I don’t want to go through a difficult underwriting process so maybe I’ll try you with one loan and then if it works out, we can enter into a longer term relationship line of credit.”


In return for not having a full underwrite, we require a little extra down payment to give us some security because we don’t know the borrower as well as we do if we fully underwrite for a line of credit.


[0:21:18] MF1: Right, that make sense. So what do you think the down payments, I know it’s different on different properties, but what do you think a typical down payment for someone who bills you the full underwrite processes on those short term loans?


[0:21:33] MF2: Our most common down payment is 20%. We have products ranging anywhere from 10% down payment to 35% down payment.


[0:21:43] MF1: And the finance renovation as well.


[0:21:44] MF2: Yeah and it really depends on the borrower and the overall situation. We can size that up very, very quickly for a borrower. We can tell them here is what it takes to get a 10% down payment, here is what it takes to get a 20, 30, 35, here are the different terms, and it’s less price. It’s not so much about pricing. It’s more about the documentation and the strength of the borrower.


[0:22:12] MF1: Right, yep that makes sense. One interesting technique that I was talking to you with your company about, was the possibility of using a short term loan to help the renovation cost on a longer term loan. So from what I understood you can do the short term loan, renovate the property and then move into a longer term loan so that you are not having to finance all the renovation yourself and the down payment. How does that work?


[0:22:39] MF2: Yeah, that’s a core. We love doing that. So we would do, it’s a traditional short term loan. And then once you have the property renovated and leased, we do have to have a new loan set up but we have obviously a lot of your information so that as soon as the property is leased up and the renovation is over, we can offer a long term loan, again, anywhere from five, 10 or 30 year products depending on the borrower’s individual desires.


[0:23:19] MF1: Right.


[0:23:20] MF2: That’s again where we initially, we were not doing the long term loans and we realized again, kind of our philosophy is we want to be one stop shop. We don’t want somebody to have to say, “Okay, well on certain types of loans I’ll use Jordan and another type of loan I’ll use a competitor.” We want you to know that no matter what type of property you have, no matter what type of documentation you have, no matter what type of loan you want that you have a relationship with us.


We are definitely about relationships and about long term relationships, we’ve never ever foreclosed on a property. We have never taken back a property because we’re here to partner with our investors and have relationships. We know that things are going to go wrong. You’re going to have a bad winter or it’s going to take longer than you expect to sell the property or your budget was a little different than it turned out to be.


Different things are just going to go wrong in the process and we’re there to work through things with our borrowers and never to try to own the property ourselves. We’re lenders, we don’t want to own your property.


[0:24:35] MF1: Right, that makes sense and if you’ve been in the business a little bit, you do hear stories about certain lenders who might underwrite properties thinking, “Hey, we can get this. You don’t know, this borrower might not be that strong. But hey, if we buy the property that’s an even better deal later on,” but that’s good to hear.


I want to say one more thing too because I’ve done a lot of research myself on some of the bigger lending companies in your niche for my own personal investments and you guys have had the most flexible and the most options out of any of them. A lot of those companies, you have to have at least five properties if you want to do a long term rental property loan.


A lot of them won’t do any multi families at all, many of them don’t do the short term loans, they only do long term loans, so you’re right. It is rare, very rare to see a company that does as many things as you guys do.


[0:25:23] MF2: Yeah. I think the thing that we can specialize in is we really want to have the service levels and the relationship philosophy of the more local smaller lenders with less bureaucracy, so that you can get quick accurate decisions and you can actually speak to a decision maker and you can’t really do that with some of the large institutional firms.


I think we have the best of all worlds. We have as much money and as much expertise and experience as the really big players but I think, we are significantly more entrepreneurial less bureaucratic and more transparent than some of the largest competitors.


[0:26:12] MF1: Right and I would agree with that too. Some of those companies would not even call or e-mail me back so I just wanted to see what they offered.


[0:26:20] MF2: Good for us.


[0:26:22] MF1: You’re right. Very cool, yeah like I said, I’ve been in the process now of refinancing eight of my properties with you guys because of your products and one huge advantage you have is you can finance more than 10 properties. If you have 10 mortgages in your name, you guys don’t have any restrictions on that.


You don’t have the restriction that a conventional lender will have and you have more money than a local portfolio lender might have. So you might not have restrictions on how much dollar amount loans you can have as well, correct?


[0:26:57] MF2: Exactly, that’s right. We can offer very large loans and we really are in no way limited by capital or money. Again, our partner is a $5 billion equity investor so between them and the debt financing that we have, we can do tons of loans. That’s the least — having enough money is literary the least of our issues.


[0:27:31] MF1: Right, yeah that’s a good problem to have.


[0:27:35] MF2: Yeah.


[0:27:36] MF1: Very cool, now switching gears a little bit, I love to talk about investing and financing and everything but I also love to talk about success and how people have become successful in their life. Now obviously, you’ve done an incredible amount in your career, what do you think, if you could give somebody one tip for just being successful in life, what do you suggest people do?


[0:27:58] MF2: Well, that’s a good one. I don’t know if I could just give one.


[0:28:02] MF1: You could give more if you like.


[0:28:03] MF2: You’ve got to be able to work really hard and you’ve got to be able to attract and retain the A Team. So I personally think that for sure, one of my most important jobs is to find, attract, and retain the most talented people in the industry and that’s something I have been very fortunate at having done. If I have to fill a particular job position, particularly if it’s a mid to senior level person, I will obsess, leaving no stone unturned.


I will do anything humanly possible to find the best people and once we have those people onboard, it’s like you have to re-recruit them every day because they’re really talented, they have lots of options and you’ve got to challenge them, you’ve got to treat them fairly, you’ve got to give them a lot of autonomy, and you’ve got to give them a lot of incentive based compensation.


If you create the right culture and you have the right people and then you combine that with hard work and again, one of the things that I’ve been really lucky is that I’ve been able to raise a ton of money. So if you think about it just real quick, you work really hard, you get a ton of money and you get the A Team and that’s really been my secret sauce.


[0:29:50] MF1: That’s great. I’m curious, for somebody who’s, let’s say they’re very young or they’re starting out, nowhere close to be able to start a massive company or anything but they have huge dreams and really want to make something big, do you think going to college and taking the Harvard route, is that a good way to start? Is there a way to short cut it? How do you feel about the whole education aspect?


[0:30:17] MF2: Well, I’m biased. One thing I wanted to add to what I said is the secret sauce, you always got to treat people fairly and with respect no matter what. For me, I’m biased so I was lucky and I was able to go the Harvard route and certainly there are situations in life where that has made my career easier because you kind of have some instant credibility and you have a lot of good relationships and contacts.


I’d say that maybe that’s an easier route but there’s tons and tons of people out there that are really successful that haven’t gone to Harvard and have been equally, a lot of people that have been a ton more successful than I have. But I always say, go to the best school you possibly can because you’re going to learn the most, you’re going to get challenged the most and you’re going to meet the smartest people.


Working in an environment with the smartest people to me is always really a great opportunity. You’re going to learn more from the smartest, hardest, working people. It doesn’t have to be, I don’t mean just academically successful people, just smart people and whatever they do. But certainly, you don’t have to go to the best colleges in order to end up there.


[0:31:42] MF1: Right and yeah I’ve always heard from people, when you go to the really prestigious schools, it’s not all about what they teach you, it’s about who you meet there and who you connect with that can help you later on in life.


[0:31:54] MF2: I couldn’t agree more. I’m sure I had the same law book as people that didn’t go to Harvard and I probably didn’t learn any more than most of my counterparts at other law schools in the country but I was challenged by some obviously brilliant professors, brilliant other students. So it really challenges your mind, your intelligence and your work and your work ethic when you’re in such a competitive environment.


[0:32:29] MF1: Right that makes sense. I would imagine for people who can’t go to Harvard, which is obviously very difficult for many people, that doesn’t mean that you can’t seek out people wherever you can go or even outside the school who are successful, who will challenge you, who are very smart and then they can help you succeed even more and challenge you as well.


[0:32:49] MF2: Oh yeah, for sure. Again, I will just say like you anybody who has an opportunity, it doesn’t matter whether the person never graduated from high school. Anytime you have an opportunity to network with and learn with really smart successful motivated people, I would always utilize that opportunity for sure.


[0:33:11] MF1: Right, no I try to do that in my life as well and every time that I meet people at a higher level, it’s like, “Hey, I can do that. It’s not as difficult as it seems,” until you see what they do and they’re just normal people.


[0:33:23] MF2: Yeah, for sure and again, I use that in my hiring philosophy. I’m literary obsessed over trying to hire the best, smartest, hardest working people I can find because that’s how I’m going to get better, that’s how the company is going to get better, that’s how the rest of the team is going to get better, etcetera, etcetera.


[0:33:46] MF1: That’s great stuff, great advice. Awesome and then one last thing I wanted to ask you, we’re getting closer to end but you mentioned to me you invest a little bit in real estate yourself, so what are your real estate investments look like?


[0:34:00] MF2: When somebody comes to us, it’s got to be a really, really safe opportunity because I just don’t have the time to really focus on it. So I would only do it on partnership with somebody. It’s pretty safe, I’m not a big risk taker on the real estate side because I already have so much exposure between my real estate investments and being in the mortgage business.


I’m already in for so long in real estate in general that I don’t go out and find real risky real estate projects. It’s got to be the right partner who’s really going to lead the project because I don’t personally have the time and we’ve been successful. So I pick and choose very selectively. I don’t have any real need to do a lot of real estate investing.


So I only do it when the opportunity is right with the right people. I’m fairly long just in terms of personal real estate that I currently own. So I am pretty picky on what I do as an investor.


[0:35:10] MF1: Yeah, that makes sense and it brings up another point where you don’t have to be a jack of all trades to be successful. It focuses also something that you need to be really successful in the world and trying to do too many things at once and it’s making it tough to succeed.


[0:35:27] MF2: Yeah, again, I’m really a lender. I do love real estate for sure and I’ve done my share of real estate investing but I’m better at lending than I am in being a real estate investor.


[0:35:40] MF1: Right and that makes perfect sense. Very cool, well I think that is all I had for you. Anything else you want to add before I get people on how to get in contact with Jordan Capital or anything else you want to add?


[0:35:53] MF2: No. Well obviously, we love to help anybody and answer any questions, anything we can do to help real estate investors and also, we work very actively with referral sources. So if people are out there and they know real estate investors, we enter into referral partnerships with lots of different types of entities and companies and people so we’d love to hear from you.


[0:36:26] MF1: Great, very good stuff. Yep, so it’s Jordancapitalfinance.com is your website and I always do a write up on these podcasts as well. So I’ll provide a link, actually the person that I’ve been working with, Jeff has been really great to work with. It’s really easy to talk with him and get the information so I love working with your guys.


[0:36:45] MF2: Yes, he’s awesome, he’s super knowledgeable, great guy, really knows his stuff, highly and great in customer service. So I couldn’t recommend anybody more.


[0:36:56] MF1: Right and I think he might be an e-mail junkie like me because he responds to my e-mails in about every time I write him.


[0:37:02] MF2: He does, I do notice that.


[0:37:06] MF1: Very good. All right, well thank you so much for being on the show Mark. I really appreciate it. I learned a lot of great stuff myself. I’m sure you’ve taught a lot of other people and you guys have really created a new option for investors which was seriously lacking in the industry a couple of years ago so I think we all appreciate that.


[0:37:25] MF2: I appreciate your time and support, thank you.


[0:37:28] MF1: All right, thank you Mark. Have a great rest of the week.


[0:37:31] MF2: Great, thanks a lot.



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